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Official Name
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En-US
INGE 225 - William Theatre Festival Dec. 05 Tape 5
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Description
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NYC tape Walter Willison, Adam Kraar, John Lloyd Young
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Place Name
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New York, New York
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Internet Media Type
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video/mp4
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YYYY-MM-DD
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En-US
2005-12
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ISO or Range
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En-US
2005-12
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transcript of
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0:00:00.080,0:00:05.680
I are from that and Margaret's gone. Uh Tom isn't
there anymore. I mean, he's alive, but he's not
0:00:05.680,0:00:10.960
there anymore. Of course, we're not there either,
but but really the people that were put that first
0:00:10.960,0:00:17.040
one together, which is Mar Margaret and Jerry and
and Martha and Jeff and I, the the other three
0:00:17.040,0:00:23.120
are they're gone. And Helen and Joan and Helen.
That's my other thing, of course, I was going
0:00:23.120,0:00:28.320
to say is because Helen was Helen contributed to
it, you know. I mean Helen was if it wasn't for
0:00:28.320,0:00:35.440
Helen it couldn't have happened. So uh she was so
nice. I mean she was a very kind lady you know we
0:00:35.440,0:00:40.560
used to go and see her. We had so much fun. We
were working on bus stop and we became such good
0:00:40.560,0:00:45.760
friends that we would just go over and sing for
her friends. you know, she wanted she would invite
0:00:45.760,0:00:49.680
us over and we would she would the ladies that
lived in the retirement community where she lived
0:00:49.680,0:00:54.240
and we would go over and Jeff and I would, you
know, bring some bring a singer, you know, and we
0:00:54.240,0:00:58.960
would do songs from the show and she was like she
was like so proud of it. She would like show off,
0:00:58.960,0:01:03.360
you know, and she came to our first show out there
was called Front Street Gaes Dodge City's Hottest
0:01:03.360,0:01:08.960
Review which took place in Dodge City, Kansas.
So, we stayed in uh in Kansas territory for that.
0:01:08.960,0:01:15.200
She came to that and she was uh she was just a
really nice lady. A really nice lady. And it was
0:01:15.200,0:01:25.280
so clear to see her in all of Bill's plays.
You know, you can clearly see I mean Bill's,
0:01:25.280,0:01:33.040
you know what I I've said to Jean that fascinates
me is it's so clear to me, not to get dark, but
0:01:33.040,0:01:38.800
it it it's so clear to me that if you read Bill's
plays that he was going to commit suicide. It's
0:01:38.800,0:01:45.760
like so obvious because in every single play if
there isn't a suicide there's talk of suicide and
0:01:45.760,0:01:51.200
even the first draft of bus stop do you know there
was a suicide in bus stop in the first version of
0:01:51.200,0:01:59.520
bus stop uh which is in at the end of the second
act in the play where now Dr. Lyman goes off and
0:01:59.520,0:02:04.560
then the sheriff comes in and says, "Christ,
somebody puked all over the back house." Well,
0:02:04.560,0:02:08.800
in the very first version, the sheriff came in
and said, "Christ, there's blood all over the
0:02:08.800,0:02:15.600
back house." And Dr. Lyman had killed himself. He
had taken a knife and killed himself. So the third
0:02:15.600,0:02:22.240
act of the play aside from the Bo Sheree and
the other stories became was also a police the
0:02:22.240,0:02:27.920
sheriff investigating what everybody saw and was
this a you know was this a murder or did he kill
0:02:27.920,0:02:34.080
himself? Uh clearly it wasn't right for the piece
but his in his first draft he had that suicide
0:02:34.080,0:02:41.760
and so many things he talked about suicide. So
I said to Gene, I said, you know, nowadays if
0:02:41.760,0:02:48.800
you read somebody's work and you saw so much focus
on suicide, you would say, this person, you know,
0:02:48.800,0:02:53.200
really, we better help this person. We better have
an intervention or do something because clearly
0:02:53.200,0:03:00.320
this is where this person's life is leading. But
in those days, you know, in the 50s, 60s, nobody,
0:03:00.320,0:03:06.560
we didn't have Oprah, we didn't have um, you know,
self-help books, we didn't have Dr. fill or any
0:03:06.560,0:03:13.520
of that stuff. And uh somehow nobody noticed. And
yet if you read all that work, you know, as a body
0:03:13.520,0:03:21.680
of work, you see it in everything he wrote, the
published and the unpublished. Uh it's very sad,
0:03:21.680,0:03:27.120
you know, and also what you see in the books. It's
so amazing to me that that when I first went to
0:03:27.120,0:03:33.200
Independence, uh well, when Helen told me about
Independence, how she didn't want certain things
0:03:33.200,0:03:38.080
to be published or to be in the library because
she was afraid that they would um hurt people,
0:03:38.080,0:03:42.160
you know, and people how they didn't want to be
identified with the books and didn't want them in
0:03:42.160,0:03:47.360
the library. By the time we went there for the
inch festival, people were coming up to me and
0:03:47.360,0:03:52.800
saying, "Oh, hi. I'm Bill's Rosemary. Oh, hi. I
was this. I was this person. I was that person."
0:03:52.800,0:03:59.280
And everybody seemed to like glory in the fact
that they were actually in these in these plays
0:03:59.280,0:04:02.880
and in the in the novels. And I thought, isn't
that sad that that couldn't have happened in
0:04:02.880,0:04:07.040
Bill's lifetime that they could have appreciated
the fact that he wrote about them? You know,
0:04:07.040,0:04:14.960
I'm just reading um Vivian Vance's um biography
and she was also a close friend of mine. In fact,
0:04:14.960,0:04:21.280
Viv was going to play Grace in the bus stop in
the musical bus stop that Josh Logan version that
0:04:21.280,0:04:27.040
I was going to do with Bernardet as an actor and
play Bo. Viv was going to play Grace and she had
0:04:27.040,0:04:34.080
been a childhood friend of um of Billing and in
one of his major works there's a major character
0:04:34.080,0:04:42.960
that is Vivian that's based on that's based on
Viv Viv and um in fact in the novel it says the
0:04:42.960,0:04:46.640
missing it talks about the biography talks
about a missing two years of her life. Well,
0:04:46.640,0:04:52.480
the missing two years of her life is what he
wrote about in that in his work. And um but
0:04:52.480,0:04:59.760
they were both they were they were really really
good friends. She also had a family that was very
0:04:59.760,0:05:06.160
um troublesome. My mother was very religious.
Told her she was going to go to hell. You know,
0:05:06.160,0:05:11.760
she she was a sinner if she was an actress. And
all these terrible things would happen and and
0:05:11.760,0:05:16.320
um so had a lot of psychological problems. and
went to therapy for a long time. Outwardly she
0:05:16.320,0:05:20.480
was Ethel Mertz and she was happy. She was a
big Broadway star before she was Ethel Mertz
0:05:20.480,0:05:26.560
and she was like happy golucky and all these
wonderful things but inwardly um there was that
0:05:26.560,0:05:33.840
same suppression that Bill Ling writes about and I
saw it in Helen too. you know, I saw it was a time
0:05:33.840,0:05:43.280
and an error when they an an era when they grew
up, I think that um things weren't talked about,
0:05:43.280,0:05:52.000
you know, and I once wrote the um liner notes for
a a recording. It's an interesting story actually.
0:05:52.000,0:05:56.640
I was in a restaurant in New York eating and I
was talking about Bill Lingge and I was talking
0:05:56.640,0:06:02.800
about bus stop. This is in the 80s, early 80s,
82 I guess. And this woman at the next table
0:06:02.800,0:06:07.280
turns to me and said, "Oh, you know, are you
in the recorded record business?" And I said,
0:06:07.280,0:06:13.440
"Yeah." She said, "Oh, I am too. I work at
Kadaman Records." And uh she said, "You know,
0:06:13.440,0:06:19.040
that name sounds familiar to me." She said,
"I think I saw something in the back room that
0:06:19.040,0:06:25.200
uh that has that name on it." So she we exchanged
numbers and the next day she called me and said,
0:06:25.200,0:06:31.440
"I found this box." She said, "All it says on
the side is in. we don't know what it is. Can you
0:06:31.440,0:06:36.960
identify it for us? So, she sent me the tapes
and it turned out to be Bill reading, you know,
0:06:36.960,0:06:41.040
you've heard the records, right, where he reads
uh he reads People in the Wind and he reads Come
0:06:41.040,0:06:48.160
Back Little Sheba. So I identified it and I wrote
the the liner notes and um in the liner notes what
0:06:48.160,0:06:57.600
I said is something I still believe. Um and that
is that whereas Tennessee was very blatant about
0:06:57.600,0:07:04.160
the sexuality and very blatant about you know
all the issues he was dealing with and whatever
0:07:04.160,0:07:10.880
uh whatever homosexuality any kind of devian
whatever it was he was like pretty much right up
0:07:10.880,0:07:20.480
front. Uh whereas Ine all ines characters are very
suppressed and it's very um under the surface. So
0:07:20.480,0:07:26.560
it's there if you want to get it. It's not there
if you don't want to choose to see it. And that's
0:07:26.560,0:07:31.520
what I think is great about his writing is that's
what life is. I mean, that's what people are like,
0:07:31.520,0:07:39.120
you know, and uh he sort of opened the closet
door for all these people in the Midwest and
0:07:39.120,0:07:46.720
exposed their their secrets and their their
sexuality. And I love that. I love that. I mean,
0:07:46.720,0:07:54.960
I I think he is still and maybe now that you know,
last summer bus stop got incredible reviews at the
0:07:54.960,0:08:01.280
Shaw Festival in Williamstown. And I hope that
once again that he can be recognized as one of
0:08:01.280,0:08:06.560
our greatest living not living one of our greatest
American playwrights living in the 1950s because
0:08:06.560,0:08:11.200
he was I mean he was recognized as that then. He
also wrote a lot of things that I think in the
0:08:11.200,0:08:18.720
unpublished works that nowadays would not be
shocking to anybody and our you know standard
0:08:18.720,0:08:25.920
operating procedure. I mean but in those days they
were quite scandalous. um the psychology he went
0:08:25.920,0:08:34.560
into about people, you know. Um from what I know
about him, he was a very kind man. I know that
0:08:34.560,0:08:39.520
uh Jerry told me quite a bit about him. I know
when I met him, he was a very kind man, but I was
0:08:39.520,0:08:45.440
young, so you know, you're like, "Oh my god, it's
William. I can't believe it." Uh, and as an adult
0:08:45.440,0:08:52.000
over the year, that's what's also been interesting
in re-examining Bus Stop is my perceptions of it
0:08:52.000,0:08:58.080
as a 30-year-old when I first started working on
it. Totally different from my perceptions as a
0:08:58.080,0:09:06.320
58-year-old man and also totally different as in
the perception of the time that's gone by. you
0:09:06.320,0:09:13.760
know, um, Helen, well, you know, you know, all the
characters she was. I mean, she's Renie. She's,
0:09:13.760,0:09:18.640
you know, she's all those little girls. She's
all those, you know, troubled little girls. And,
0:09:18.640,0:09:31.520
um, she really loved him. She really, really
loved him. and she really wasn't equipped to
0:09:31.520,0:09:40.880
deal with his problems. I mean, his issues. And
I think a lot of those issues, I'm sad to say,
0:09:40.880,0:09:47.440
came from growing up in that environment,
in that at that particular time, you know,
0:09:47.440,0:09:55.040
where where everybody was supposed to conform. You
know, somebody from Independence quotes in in in
0:09:55.040,0:09:59.600
Vivian Vance's book, they say, "Oh, well, all his
plays were lies. Nobody was like, this is the this
0:09:59.600,0:10:05.360
is the ironic statement in this book that isn't
meant to be ironic, but I find quite ironic." Now,
0:10:05.360,0:10:11.200
we know that Viv was, you know, had psychological
problems her entire life. Vivian Vance,
0:10:11.200,0:10:16.160
um, which she readily spoke about. You know, she
was at the end of her life, she was doing a lot to
0:10:16.160,0:10:20.720
help pe me mental illness because she went through
therapy her whole life. She had breakdowns. He
0:10:20.720,0:10:25.280
should have had nervous breakdowns. Um, Bill,
we know that he was in and out of institutions
0:10:25.280,0:10:31.360
and dealing with his alcoholism and uh and
dealing with guilt, you know, over things
0:10:31.360,0:10:37.600
that he shouldn't have been guilty about. Um,
but he wrote really about these people. Well,
0:10:37.600,0:10:42.800
this woman from Independence, I can't remember
her name, says in this book about Julian Vance,
0:10:42.800,0:10:47.600
well, none of these none of these stories about
these people in his stories are true. you know, we
0:10:47.600,0:10:52.960
all we were just normal kids, you know, doing the
exact normal thing and we were nothing like those
0:10:52.960,0:10:56.880
people in his stories. You've got to remember when
you're reading these plays that this, you know,
0:10:56.880,0:11:00.560
he may say that, but this is the same independence
that produced a Vivian Vance and a William
0:11:00.560,0:11:13.280
In. Do you know what I mean? Hello. Of course.
Yes. And hello. So, um, anyway, would you like
0:11:13.280,0:11:20.400
to know? But as you said, it was it was an era
more so than an individual city. I mean, oh,
0:11:20.400,0:11:25.200
it was a whole era of suppression, the McCarthy
era. Are you kidding? Everybody around the I mean,
0:11:25.200,0:11:30.080
I look back at my own family and my parents
were from Ohio and they moved to California
0:11:30.080,0:11:34.800
and my father who who's a wonderful man who passed
away in April. In fact, one of the greatest things
0:11:34.800,0:11:39.600
about independence was for a couple years my
parents were able to come and it meant so much to
0:11:39.600,0:11:46.880
them and they got along with the community so well
because they grew up in Ohio and it was a similar
0:11:46.880,0:11:51.920
very similar town, very similar community. So they
got along just great. I mean they loved Margaret,
0:11:51.920,0:11:57.600
they loved those people and um they loved
everybody. They had a great great time and um so
0:11:57.600,0:12:03.920
yeah it was the whole country was suppressed. the
whole country was living in this this fictitious
0:12:03.920,0:12:09.360
world where we don't talk about the fact that
we have a god as a president and who and Kennedy
0:12:09.360,0:12:13.920
but he's also slipping girls up the back stairs
you know and and sleeping with Marilyn Monroe we
0:12:13.920,0:12:18.320
don't talk about the fact that Marilyn Monroe was
probably murdered most likely we don't talk about
0:12:18.320,0:12:25.360
the fact or we didn't talk about the fact you know
that Judith exer got pregnant by Kennedy um I mean
0:12:25.360,0:12:32.000
none of that stuff was now I think it's maybe too
much now I think there's a too much of let's be
0:12:32.000,0:12:36.880
open and let's let's write about our scandals
and let's write about our sexuality. Let's talk
0:12:36.880,0:12:41.360
about more information than I need to know. More
information than anybody needs to know and you
0:12:41.360,0:12:47.200
know and Tom Cruz should keep his mouth shut and
things like that. I mean but but during the 50s
0:12:47.200,0:12:53.200
yeah nobody talked about these things and that's
why I think Bill did such a great job of capturing
0:12:53.200,0:13:00.000
the reality of people. I mean look at look at Doc
and Lola. I mean those are so real. I mean, you
0:13:00.000,0:13:04.560
know those people and and you know that's his you
know who those people are right that's really his
0:13:04.560,0:13:10.560
aunt in Witchah in Witchaw his aunt and his uncle
who are also in dark at the top of the stairs so
0:13:10.560,0:13:14.480
amazing to me when people write about William and
they talk they want to write you know they write
0:13:14.480,0:13:20.400
biography things are in other books about him the
biographies write in the plays I mean he always
0:13:20.400,0:13:26.720
wrote in in all the most of the short stories and
in the plays they are really about real people I
0:13:26.720,0:13:30.960
doubt that he ever really made anybody up from
scratch match. I know that he knew those people
0:13:30.960,0:13:37.840
cuz they're so real and they recur. I mean, the
aunt recurs, you know, his mother in dark at the
0:13:37.840,0:13:43.040
top of the stairs, a little boy in dark at the top
of stairs. There's his autobiography, you know,
0:13:43.040,0:13:49.840
um or at least the first part of it. Uh in the
older plays, he always he always the Virgil
0:13:49.840,0:13:55.760
character. This is something I love. This is
something I talk about when we work on bus stop.
0:13:55.760,0:14:07.200
Um, I think that what I what Jerry Lawrence and I
used to sort of uh raise our eyebrows at is there
0:14:07.200,0:14:13.600
was a lot in independence once they were open
about talking about Bill's homosexuality. It
0:14:13.600,0:14:18.800
suddenly became too much of an issue and suddenly
pe all people you would say what do you know about
0:14:18.800,0:14:24.320
we image and they would say well I know he was a
homosexual. Well, you know, as Richard Chamberlain
0:14:24.320,0:14:28.400
said, you know, if somebody tells you they're
homosexual, all it means is that if they're
0:14:28.400,0:14:34.320
having sex, it will probably be with somebody of
the same sex. That's all it means. You could be
0:14:34.320,0:14:39.440
a heterosexual and have a torture chamber in your
basement, you know, and do all kinds of perverse
0:14:39.440,0:14:44.800
things, but to society, if you're a heterosexual,
fine, that's that's totally acceptable. You're
0:14:44.800,0:14:50.800
a heterosexual. that somehow the purest maybe a
homosexual has the most pure relationship but oh
0:14:50.800,0:14:55.040
my god it's under this dark cloud. So I was kind
of shocked there was so much focus on this and
0:14:55.040,0:15:00.240
even people who gave lectures you know they he's
homosexual he's a homosexual but that's he may
0:15:00.240,0:15:06.560
have been a homosexual but that's not but that
has nothing to do with what he was about there
0:15:06.560,0:15:13.280
are any number of great playwrights Stephen
you know writers Steven you know Alred Albby
0:15:13.280,0:15:17.120
certainly doesn't mean anything there also it just
it's like saying a straight writer can't write
0:15:17.120,0:15:21.360
about homosexuals because he's straight or she's
straight you know it's ridiculous so I felt there
0:15:21.360,0:15:29.680
was too much emphas emphasis on on that aspect
of Bill. However, in the plays, what I think is
0:15:29.680,0:15:38.720
amazing is that he really did write about when
I was at Josh's one day, Josh Logan's one day,
0:15:38.720,0:15:42.880
Josh got a phone call from Bill and of course
we're working on bus stop because we what we
0:15:42.880,0:15:47.680
did for those first six months was we would do
presentations for David Merrick and for Roger
0:15:47.680,0:15:52.240
Stevens and the producers who would be involved
in producing the show. And so I was there quite
0:15:52.240,0:15:57.360
a bit and Josh would work on the script and sort
of like try me and we it was fun. I mean we had
0:15:57.360,0:16:04.720
a great time and Bill was constantly calling
from California with ideas and and input and
0:16:04.720,0:16:10.000
uh he called one day and Josh was in his little
office over there and Josh came out and said who
0:16:10.000,0:16:15.840
I love dearly by the way too um who also was a
manic depressive who had other issues. Well, Josh
0:16:15.840,0:16:21.280
came out and said, uh, um, can you believe that,
Billing? He keeps trying to tell me that Virgil
0:16:21.280,0:16:26.880
is a latent homosexual. Now, can you believe that?
And I just thought it was so funny because Jo Josh
0:16:26.880,0:16:31.360
is talking like it's a real person. You know,
first he's like, can you believe he said that
0:16:31.360,0:16:36.240
about him? Well, that's impossible. And me and
then on the other side of the coin, Billing wrote
0:16:36.240,0:16:40.880
the character. So, Billing says, well, you know,
really Virgil's a late homosexual. Then probably
0:16:40.880,0:16:49.440
he is because Bill Ling wrote the character. and
so skillfully and so beautifully and so tastefully
0:16:49.440,0:16:55.360
and so truthfully and that's Billing you know
Dr. Lyman is Billing is the alcoholic side of
0:16:55.360,0:17:02.080
Billing quoting Shakespeare. Um but Billing but
Virgil's relationship with B is very much like
0:17:02.080,0:17:12.160
certain relationships that William had in his real
life with some now very well-known actors. And
0:17:12.160,0:17:19.120
uh and then he proceeded to elaborate on that
relationship in other plays. Each play that became
0:17:19.120,0:17:23.760
a little more obvious, a little more obvious. And
finally, just right by the time he gets to where
0:17:23.760,0:17:30.320
his daddy, it's the same relationship with the
guy except the guy is is openly is openly gay.
0:17:30.320,0:17:35.360
And I thought that was pretty daring for the time.
I thought that was very very daring for the time,
0:17:35.360,0:17:40.960
you know. I think it's very kind of daring now.
And it's kind of better than what they write now.
0:17:40.960,0:17:48.560
When everybody writes these characters, you
know, he wrote them, he made them very real.
0:17:48.560,0:17:54.480
He made them very truthful and very honest
and troubled and of the time, you know, but
0:17:54.480,0:17:58.480
I did feel there was a little too much emphasis.
Just because somebody writes those characters,
0:17:58.480,0:18:04.640
that doesn't mean that the emphasis should be
on that, right? I know that trouble I know it
0:18:04.640,0:18:10.560
troubles Jean, too. It troubles Gene. It troubles
um it troubles a lot of people, but he's certainly
0:18:10.560,0:18:14.960
one of our He is what a great playwright. I
mean, have you read the short stories? I've
0:18:14.960,0:18:18.160
read some of them. Have you read some of them?
Have you read the little novels he wrote? Which
0:18:18.160,0:18:25.200
ones did you read? I read Miss Wyoff and My Son
is a Splendid Driver and it's wonderful. Have
0:18:25.200,0:18:30.560
you read the unpublished ones? No, I have. Go in
there and read the unpublished stuff sometime. Um,
0:18:30.560,0:18:35.280
it's fascinating. You know, it's and he writes,
you know, there there are some people in this town
0:18:35.280,0:18:40.000
that I would love to know who they are because ob
there's I'll tell you what he writes recurringly
0:18:40.000,0:18:47.120
in a lot of the unpublished work. There was an
Italian family and the Italian family apparently
0:18:47.120,0:18:55.040
had a son who was like, you know, very um popular
with the women and gorgeous and uh I would expect
0:18:55.040,0:19:03.680
Warren Batty is an Italian, that type. And um he
writes repeatedly about this young girl having a
0:19:03.680,0:19:07.920
relationship with this in different versions
of the story. He was trying to get it right.
0:19:07.920,0:19:15.200
He also writes about another boy that um in his
last novel, The Boy from the Circus, which was
0:19:15.200,0:19:19.680
laying on his desk with the rejection notice when
he went out in the garage and killed himself. He
0:19:19.680,0:19:26.240
received it, put it on the desk, and Helen came in
and found the novel with the rejection notice and
0:19:26.240,0:19:33.200
walked out in the garage and he was gone. Uh but
he was he had various drafts trying to get this
0:19:33.200,0:19:41.600
story right. And the story is about a boy who was
in the merchant marines was a sailor or something
0:19:41.600,0:19:46.880
and he used to work in fields and he was older
than the other kids but he ended up going to into
0:19:46.880,0:19:54.240
the independence college junior college and um and
he was gorgeous and he caused some scandal because
0:19:54.240,0:19:59.200
he was in a um the reason I think this must be
true is because he doesn't just write about it
0:19:59.200,0:20:06.480
once he tries to get the story right in different
versions and uh someone was directing a a pageant
0:20:06.480,0:20:11.440
at the school and the kid was apparently dressed
in tights or dressed in something small. Now this
0:20:11.440,0:20:19.120
is you know you're talking the 1920s and uh or
I think it's a jock strap in one in one version
0:20:19.120,0:20:24.080
with glitter on it or something and caused a
big scandal in the town because this teacher
0:20:24.080,0:20:29.920
or this person who put the the um the event
together had this boy parading indeently in
0:20:29.920,0:20:35.360
front of the town. He writes that story over and
over again. So, I suspect it's a true event. Um,
0:20:35.360,0:20:40.640
one of the stories Helen never wanted at the time
to be published was he he wrote a lot about the
0:20:40.640,0:20:46.960
the um the two bankers wives. Do you know that
story? Well, in Independence, Kansas, I know
0:20:46.960,0:20:52.560
that the there were feuding bankers and their
wives, I guess, were pretty responsible for Well,
0:20:52.560,0:20:57.760
the wives are the whole thing. The wives were
inseparable and the wives went to Europe together.
0:20:57.760,0:21:02.880
They went everywhere together, right? They were
very different, but they he writes wonderful
0:21:02.880,0:21:07.280
funny stories about them. They went to Europe and
they had learn they went to England and they had a
0:21:07.280,0:21:13.040
great time. They sent everybody postcards. They
went to France and they apparently the story is
0:21:13.040,0:21:22.480
they got off the uh the train and one of them said
lube leagues. And the other one said, "No, no, no.
0:21:22.480,0:21:27.680
It's le bagges." And she said, "No, it's Leagues."
She said, "No, it's Lees." And she says, "No, no,
0:21:27.680,0:21:33.840
whatever it was." and they fought and the next
thing you know one of the women came home. They
0:21:33.840,0:21:38.160
never spoke again. The ladies of the town split
because they could never invite one. They could
0:21:38.160,0:21:42.320
never invite them both to the same function. It
escalated to the point where the husbands who own
0:21:42.320,0:21:47.760
the one bank split up and then the other husband
built a bank across the street to compete with
0:21:47.760,0:21:52.480
the other one and that's why there are two banks.
But it's because these two women in independence
0:21:52.480,0:21:55.680
fought and this would have been like the turn of
the century. So I mean something like that would
0:21:55.680,0:22:00.400
happen then, right? I mean, so those were the kind
of things that thought, well, while these people
0:22:00.400,0:22:04.240
are still around, you know, we mustn't let them
know that Billy exposed this sc or the man that
0:22:04.240,0:22:08.560
shot himself in the foot. That's another thing.
You know, the man that shot himself in the foot,
0:22:08.560,0:22:21.760
Sinclair. Harry Sinclair. Um, Harry Sinclair
had an affair with someone in Independence.
0:22:21.760,0:22:30.080
This woman then went off to Witchah or Kansas City
and uh disappeared for nine months or whatever or
0:22:30.080,0:22:39.200
six months um and came back. Well, the next thing
the people at Independence knew they were getting
0:22:39.200,0:22:46.160
mail from Harry Sinclair's wife and he about
their daughter that they had. Uh and they didn't
0:22:46.160,0:22:54.080
even know that she had a daughter, you know, that
they had a daughter. and um they were surprised
0:22:54.080,0:23:04.000
actually that the wife had even committed to
having a daughter. Um, so years later when Billing
0:23:04.000,0:23:09.680
was in New York, he got a late night phone call
from Truman Capot saying the princess I don't and
0:23:09.680,0:23:15.440
I can't remember the name. The princess so and
so wants to meet you. And he it was like 11:00
0:23:15.440,0:23:19.440
at night and Bill said, "But wait." Oh, first he
said, "I have a surprise for you. Somebody wants
0:23:19.440,0:23:22.720
to meet you." And he said, "You've got to tell
me who it is because I'm not leaving my house
0:23:22.720,0:23:26.720
and getting dressed at 11 o'clock at night." So
he says, "The Princess so and so." And he said,
0:23:26.720,0:23:30.000
"She really wants to meet me?" and and he thought,
"You're not just making this up, Truman." And he
0:23:30.000,0:23:35.360
said, "No." And she was sort of an um she had
notoriety because she was Harry Sinclair's
0:23:35.360,0:23:44.080
daughter who had married a very wealthy prince and
she became the princess. So she she got there and
0:23:44.080,0:23:49.680
she did want to meet Billing. And he walked in and
he was shocked when he first saw her because he
0:23:49.680,0:23:56.160
recognized her immediately. He she looked exactly
like the woman in town that everybody knew had had
0:23:56.160,0:24:02.320
the affair with Harry Sinclair when he was a kid.
So his reaction was startled to say the least. And
0:24:02.320,0:24:08.480
um they sat down and she said uh I want to ask
you something. She said you know I'm adopted.
0:24:08.480,0:24:14.880
She said my parents um someone in Independence was
pregnant and moved to what had the baby in Kansas
0:24:14.880,0:24:20.320
City and so they adopted me. And Billing realized
she didn't even know that Harriet Sinclair was her
0:24:20.320,0:24:25.760
real father. her biological father. They had told
her her whole life that she was somebody else's
0:24:25.760,0:24:33.840
child that she that that they had adopted.
So she um Bill couldn't tell her, you know,
0:24:33.840,0:24:38.720
he knew exactly who that he knew Harry Sinclair.
Who could he say that's your real father and your
0:24:38.720,0:24:42.880
mother was? He just couldn't bring himself to
say he figured if they had told her, you know,
0:24:42.880,0:24:48.960
she would have been in her 30s or for this time
maybe 40s. He couldn't tell her that that was her,
0:24:48.960,0:24:54.640
that he was a real father. Well, we need to
find her and have her endow the festival. I
0:24:54.640,0:24:59.200
wonder if she's still around. Who knows? That's
a wild story. I had heard that one before. Oh,
0:24:59.200,0:25:04.160
there's a lot of stories. I got somebody else
here. I think Adam is here. So, did that Oh,
0:25:04.160,0:25:11.280
we I there many many things there and and uh how
can I tell all of that? But I'll choose the best
0:25:11.280,0:25:15.840
and I'll I'll piece it together with things that
we have from other people and tell that important
0:25:15.840,0:25:20.320
part of I wish you know I miss I wish I could
talk this little I'm sure they're all gone now.
0:25:20.320,0:25:27.840
Those ladies. Oh, I love Stella and Nora. Stella
and Nora. Oh, I didn't say Stella and Nora. Oh,
0:25:27.840,0:25:33.440
I Stella and Nora. What happened to the brother
that lived in the attic? You remember the brother
0:25:33.440,0:25:40.880
that lived in the attic? Well, brother. Well,
Steinbergers, you know, Steinberers were Well,
0:25:40.880,0:25:48.720
Steinberers are in picnic, you know,
and well, they're in uh chemical.
0:25:48.720,0:25:55.840
I solved that. Okay. All right. So, we'll just
visit informally here and I'll take some sound
0:25:55.840,0:26:04.400
bites here and there. Uh you you Brooklyn's
home. So, uh how did you hear about or end up
0:26:04.400,0:26:13.200
in Independence? I first heard about the festival
in American Theater magazine and it caught my
0:26:13.200,0:26:20.400
attention because it seemed like an really lively
festival with important playwrights from all over
0:26:20.400,0:26:24.960
the country in the middle of nowhere. So, I
was intrigued and I poked around a little and
0:26:24.960,0:26:30.960
heard about these playwriting residencies and saw
that uh a couple of playrs that I really admire
0:26:30.960,0:26:36.640
including Melanie Marik had had lived in the in
house and done this residency and and I wanted
0:26:36.640,0:26:43.280
to do it and so I I approached Peter and sent him
some work and that's how how it all started. So,
0:26:43.280,0:26:49.760
you heard about it and approached him. I did. I I
I did approach him directly and but I knew Melanie
0:26:49.760,0:26:54.880
Marik and asked her about it and she was one of
the people who recommended me. So word on the
0:26:54.880,0:27:03.520
street is is good definitely. it it and actually
uh it was probably close to two years ago that
0:27:03.520,0:27:09.920
I first wrote Peter and there wasn't the word
there wasn't a lot of word on the street about
0:27:09.920,0:27:18.960
this res residency at that time and uh so so was a
a little bit of a of a of a secret um but but but
0:27:18.960,0:27:24.160
the people who had been there that I spoke to were
just raving about it and so I was determined to go
0:27:24.160,0:27:32.640
if I could. So for a lot of people in the audience
uh at distribute in April have no idea about how a
0:27:32.640,0:27:40.320
play gets written. I mean they're they're nineto-5
people with jobs and uh what does it mean to
0:27:40.320,0:27:48.320
someone like you to have a residency? What does
that mean? Why? Um, well, it it's really a huge
0:27:48.320,0:27:56.240
gift because it's it's so it's so difficult
to to survive as a playwright in in America
0:27:56.240,0:28:07.280
in 2005. And just to have the the the time and
space to focus primarily on writing a play is is
0:28:07.280,0:28:16.000
extraordinarily rare. and and I I know that it's
rare for even even the most successful playwrights
0:28:16.000,0:28:24.240
uh the most well-known playwrights. So, so it's
just it's just the uh ability to to focus a lot on
0:28:24.240,0:28:31.600
on a play makes all the difference in the world uh
in being able to to really enter in into the world
0:28:31.600,0:28:41.200
of the play and and let that become more real than
than the noise on the street or juggling day jobs
0:28:41.200,0:28:50.720
or you know or other kinds of writing assignments.
So, it's yeah, it's an enormous opportunity to to
0:28:50.720,0:28:55.520
complete a play in a different way. We interviewed
someone the other evening and while we were
0:28:55.520,0:29:02.240
getting ready, he had his Blackberry out and he
was scrolling through all of these emails and
0:29:02.240,0:29:08.960
and I thought, well, you can't even escape that in
in Kansas, but there's so many distractions these
0:29:08.960,0:29:18.400
days. And uh so I I guess Independence would in
some ways be kind of a uh safe haven or a little
0:29:18.400,0:29:26.720
more remote than Brooklyn. It it it's radically
different. Um I was really able to lose myself in
0:29:26.720,0:29:35.200
in the work in a way that I'm rarely able to in in
Brooklyn or or actually many other places. It was
0:29:35.200,0:29:42.640
really one one of the best writing residencies
I've I've ever had. Uh I'm going to ask you to
0:29:42.640,0:29:49.840
hold that thought just because Right. Oh, right.
Exactly. So relevant. I could even play that and
0:29:49.840,0:29:56.480
people say, "Oh, yeah. They're in New York. How
do you concentrate in New York?" But we'll let
0:29:56.480,0:30:01.040
that get out of the way a minute and I'll ask
you that again because that's a good statement.
0:30:02.160,0:30:09.120
This seems to be a crossroads here
for Yeah. Yeah. Lot of sirens.
0:30:09.120,0:30:15.520
Okay. I think we're gone there. So, so
Independence is a haven. It's really pretty
0:30:15.520,0:30:21.120
different from where you work in Brooklyn. It's
It's radically different than than try trying
0:30:21.120,0:30:28.320
to work in Brooklyn. uh I was really able to to
lose myself in the work there in a way that I'm
0:30:28.320,0:30:34.800
rarely able to in in New York. Uh because of
the quiet because of the support from the Inch
0:30:34.800,0:30:43.120
Center. Uh I got an enormous amount of work on on
two full-length plays accomplished there. So what
0:30:43.120,0:30:49.920
were those plays? What were you working on? Um
one was something I'd been preparing to write for
0:30:49.920,0:30:59.680
some time. It's a play inspired by uh the freedom
summer in 1964, the civil rights movement and for
0:30:59.680,0:31:06.960
me kind of an ambitious play requiring a lot of
research um as well as finding a way in and I I
0:31:06.960,0:31:15.120
don't know if I could have uh begun that play in
in Brooklyn, New York uh for lots of reasons and
0:31:15.120,0:31:22.160
I was really able to to begin that play which
was for me a a huge accomplishment and actually
0:31:22.160,0:31:29.120
now uh about a year later I'm I'm finishing
that play but definitely that I got a great
0:31:29.120,0:31:35.920
running start and the other piece was was a
at that time a brand new two character play
0:31:35.920,0:31:42.960
uh that I was able to really advance both because
of the time writing in the in house and having a
0:31:42.960,0:31:51.920
workshop directed by Peter at the center which was
a a great help in terms of of focusing the play,
0:31:51.920,0:31:57.760
getting getting response from an audience, hearing
questions from these two amazing actors who spent
0:31:57.760,0:32:04.320
several days working on it. So, it's not only
time to do the writing, but Peter then the
0:32:04.320,0:32:13.600
inch festival then pro a little bit intimidating
and it's here I am holding forth about my plays.
0:32:13.600,0:32:19.360
That's what it's all about. That's what what the
inch festival is all about, I think, for people
0:32:19.360,0:32:25.760
who've come in and gotten to sit down at lunch
with Arthur Miller, Neil Simon. You know, it's
0:32:25.760,0:32:31.600
quality time, too. They're just less distracted
than if they're at a lunch in the Sardis. I
0:32:31.600,0:32:38.320
think Oh, definitely. People who've gone to the
festival have just remarked many times, I can't
0:32:38.320,0:32:46.160
believe I was in Independence, Kansas having fried
chicken at Riverside Park with Peter Schaffer.
0:32:46.720,0:32:55.600
Um but you said I was starting to say that it's
not just the time to write the play but then the
0:32:55.600,0:33:01.200
festival also provides this opportunity to hear
the play which again most people don't think about
0:33:01.200,0:33:08.480
that as a part of that whole process how important
that is to hear it that really was one of one of
0:33:08.480,0:33:16.000
the best parts of the residency was was working
with Peter on this workshop where he brought two
0:33:16.000,0:33:23.360
terrific actors from New York to spend several
days mostly around a table uh reading the play,
0:33:23.360,0:33:29.840
asking questions about the play for that very pure
process aspect also putting together in a pretty
0:33:29.840,0:33:36.640
short time this really strong public reading and
that was attended by by a good cross-section of
0:33:36.640,0:33:44.880
people from Independence who were a great audience
uh very open-minded um knowledgeable about about
0:33:44.880,0:33:53.040
theater. Um, cur curious about about theater and
and there was a talk back afterwards and really
0:33:53.040,0:34:02.160
really useful to get the responses from from this
audience from independents. Um, not not jaded in
0:34:02.160,0:34:10.400
any way. Um, but but certainly not for the most
part not not naive either about about theater. Um,
0:34:10.400,0:34:17.600
and frankly I, as Peter could tell you, I I'm not
a fan of of talkbacks for for lots of reasons. Um,
0:34:17.600,0:34:22.880
I like feedback, but I'm not a I don't love
getting up there and just sort of, you know,
0:34:22.880,0:34:30.800
hearing hearing audienc's instant responses to a
reading. But this this was um the best talk back
0:34:30.800,0:34:39.600
I'd ever had. Um, again, just because the audience
came to it with a real kind of curiosity about
0:34:39.600,0:34:45.040
new work that there was sort of no prejudgment of
like, oh, well, he better prove to us that he can
0:34:45.040,0:34:50.640
write a play. Um, but just good good questions
about about the play and good responses to to
0:34:50.640,0:35:00.000
their experience of the play. And I have to think
that that is a growing awareness on that group of
0:35:00.000,0:35:06.640
people's part. uh from having seen more about
the playwriting process because I'm sure the
0:35:06.640,0:35:12.400
first time they heard a reading of a play at
a festival, they expected it to be a finished
0:35:12.400,0:35:20.240
product and they're now learning to that they
can participate and uh that's good, right? And
0:35:20.240,0:35:25.760
and but that's that's sometimes why I don't like
talkbacks because you'll get audiences who think
0:35:25.760,0:35:31.840
that participation means that they they can then
now begin to rewrite your play for you. And it
0:35:31.840,0:35:38.000
wasn't it wasn't that at all. It w it was it was a
real sort of joy about sharing in the process and
0:35:38.000,0:35:45.520
and just wanting to share their their impressions
of the experience. Pretty sophisticated really.
0:35:45.520,0:35:51.680
uh knowing that that what was most helpful to me
was was hearing about their gut reactions to this
0:35:51.680,0:35:59.600
piece. You lived in the inch house and uh what
about meals, transportation, and so forth? How
0:35:59.600,0:36:08.320
does that work for for you? Well, meals are one of
the great things is is that you you can eat really
0:36:08.320,0:36:16.960
well ve very inexpensively. I I still I still am
sentimental about about how how well you could
0:36:16.960,0:36:24.160
eat for for next to nothing there and how how easy
it was to just get get food. Um and getting around
0:36:24.160,0:36:33.040
is is simple. Well, I mean, you you did need a car
um to get certainly to get to the college usually,
0:36:33.040,0:36:38.640
but uh it's it's such it's such a small town
that it wasn't it wasn't at all daunting to
0:36:38.640,0:36:46.000
uh to leave leave to teach a class, you
know, 10 minutes, but well, I didn't do that,
0:36:46.000,0:36:51.120
but to but to leave for a class shortly before it
begins. there's sort of not the the like in New
0:36:51.120,0:36:56.320
York if I have to go into town to teach a class
I really have to start thinking about it a couple
0:36:56.320,0:37:02.800
hours in advance and and there's just so none of
that there. It's it's um the ability to get to get
0:37:02.800,0:37:10.560
to the supermarket or to get over to the in center
is is isn't a big part of of planning your day. So
0:37:10.560,0:37:18.000
so that makes makes you much more able to focus
on on the work. And so did did you teach high
0:37:18.000,0:37:23.840
school or college classes? I got to teach both. I
got to teach at uh Independence Community College
0:37:23.840,0:37:32.640
playwriting workshop. Um but also and even more
meaningful to me was I got to teach a playwriting
0:37:32.640,0:37:39.120
workshop at at a high school in Sedan, Kansas,
which was one of the great teaching experiences
0:37:39.120,0:37:47.920
I've ever had. It was it's it Sudan is a town
uh considerably smaller than Independence and
0:37:47.920,0:37:54.160
uh the students there most of them had virtually
never seen live theater and it was really an
0:37:54.160,0:37:59.680
experience of watching them discover what theater
is and that they could put their stories up there
0:37:59.680,0:38:09.680
on stage and and that that experience really
transformed them and was so exciting to see that
0:38:09.680,0:38:15.040
that theater really does have the power to change
people's lives. That was that was what te teaching
0:38:15.040,0:38:24.800
at Sedan was about for me. That's great. Did
they see their own works read by they did uh we
0:38:24.800,0:38:32.560
work mostly in Sudan. I co-taught the class with
with my co-resident Keradvitch. So we work with
0:38:32.560,0:38:39.840
them for for the eight weeks of the residency and
then they actually came by bus the 40 minutes to
0:38:39.840,0:38:48.480
independence to the ine theater and uh we spent a
long day rehearsing uh readings of the short plays
0:38:48.480,0:38:55.840
that the 10 students in this from this small high
school had written. Um people from the in center
0:38:55.840,0:39:01.360
community performed in the plays for the most
part. Um, so there were even some professionals
0:39:01.360,0:39:08.640
um like Hannah Joyce Hovind uh performing in
these in these pieces and and that that was really
0:39:08.640,0:39:13.040
um an extraordinary climax for them because
they've been working on these plays and and really
0:39:13.040,0:39:19.040
enjoying it. Um but again had didn't really know
much about theater and then suddenly to see it up
0:39:19.040,0:39:28.080
there on stage and to see an audience captivated
by their stories was was so so meaningful to them.
0:39:28.800,0:39:37.120
So, what's uh your back in Brooklyn? Um, have
you recommended to anyone else that they come
0:39:37.120,0:39:42.800
out enthusiastically? Yeah, I'm I'm pushing
a couple of people because I know that that
0:39:42.800,0:39:53.280
it'll be a great experience for them. Um, def
definitely I I I think that that most playwrights
0:39:53.280,0:40:00.080
uh would would want to do this um because it
because it In some ways, you can you can make
0:40:00.080,0:40:06.080
of it what you want. So, so in other words,
there's there's sort of no agenda of well,
0:40:06.080,0:40:13.120
you must have a play that's at a certain level
in order to workshop it. Uh Peter was wide open
0:40:13.120,0:40:20.320
to the fact that that the play we workshopped
was was hot off the printer. um pretty pretty
0:40:20.320,0:40:28.400
messy and and just just well we'll we'll it
was pretty much a playwright driven approach
0:40:28.400,0:40:34.640
to developing the play which which was a great
opportunity. Um often you can't get a workshop of
0:40:34.640,0:40:41.920
a play unless it's at a certain point and unless
it's the I didn't I didn't have to audition the
0:40:41.920,0:40:50.640
play. Peter said what play do you want to work
on? and and that's that's a rare opportunity.
0:40:50.640,0:40:56.400
You've said many things there that I can use.
And uh I I hear I'm already in my head doing the
0:40:56.400,0:41:02.880
editing between you and an Oh, good. uh may even
have to go over to Sedan and get some pictures.
0:41:02.880,0:41:08.400
That'd be great. Oh, I I mean I could go on and
on about Sedan. Um, I know it's not that relevant,
0:41:08.400,0:41:16.880
but but it w it uh um well I so it may not be
as relevant to the to the independence audience,
0:41:16.880,0:41:23.440
the Sedan thing, but I think we're trying to show
that uh it's not just independence anymore. It's
0:41:23.440,0:41:28.560
uh with Peter's guidance, it's reaching out into
area high schools and colleges at 24-hour plays
0:41:28.560,0:41:33.120
that he does gives a lot of people a taste of
theater that, as you say, many of them wouldn't
0:41:33.120,0:41:40.880
have otherwise. So, Right. And I I got to to
work to spend a long night on the 24-hour high
0:41:40.880,0:41:48.240
school plays with high school students from all
over all over the area. And and uh again, it was
0:41:48.240,0:41:53.920
something I was a little unsure how how are novice
playwrights going to write a play in in 24 hours,
0:41:53.920,0:42:00.320
but uh they did. They were really good plays. And
I have I've seen the college production. I haven't
0:42:00.320,0:42:08.720
seen any of the high school 24-hour plays. And you
felt they were pretty they did it. Exactly. Yeah.
0:42:08.720,0:42:15.040
Yeah. Wow. Um and and that I think that's one of
the other great things about the residency, things
0:42:15.040,0:42:24.400
like the 24-hour plays. I actually got to see um
meet me in St. Louis, which was the the Niwala
0:42:24.400,0:42:31.120
production that year and or just the way that
people come together for the events at the Ine
0:42:31.120,0:42:37.840
Theater. It's it's theater there really seems to
be something that that the community participates
0:42:37.840,0:42:45.760
in. It's it's um it's so it's so different from
from theater in New York. And uh I guess in some
0:42:45.760,0:42:53.120
ways some of it is some of it like the knee walla
play is community theater. Um, but that's that's
0:42:53.120,0:43:01.120
a really great thing to have to have theater be
not just an entertainment or some elite thing,
0:43:01.120,0:43:10.000
but something that that's um a a big important
happy social event for for a whole community that
0:43:10.000,0:43:16.400
everybody gets involved in. I think that's getting
back to to to the roots of of why theater is a
0:43:16.400,0:43:23.920
really essential thing, especially in this country
for for fostering community and giving people a
0:43:23.920,0:43:31.440
sense of, you know, where they fit into their
their community. And community seems to become
0:43:31.440,0:43:39.440
a dominant word used in these past few days as
we've talked to people. It's I'm beginning to find
0:43:39.440,0:43:46.080
in my mind a common theme there that I'm going to
build around on the for the tribute is community.
0:43:46.080,0:43:51.760
I you know I haven't been in a lot of I haven't
spent a lot of time in small towns but I do
0:43:51.760,0:44:01.520
think that there's something really unusual about
independence as as a a community that that has an
0:44:01.520,0:44:08.720
appetite and a love for the arts and artists. Uh
it's a the I think I think the sort of the serious
0:44:08.720,0:44:13.440
artists there may be a small community but they're
they're unusually ardent and then the people who
0:44:13.440,0:44:21.920
aren't artists are are really so hospitable to
to to the playwrights and the people there. Um,
0:44:21.920,0:44:26.720
you know, having to having to get a haircut and
and hearing the enthusiasm of the barber about
0:44:26.720,0:44:32.880
the festival and how she'd done costumes over
there is uh just makes you realize that that it's
0:44:32.880,0:44:42.560
there's a real fabric in in that town supporting
this this thing. Very good. You've said many nice
0:44:42.560,0:44:48.960
things I can use. Oh, I hope so. I mean, take take
what's helpful and the and it's good for me as an
0:44:48.960,0:44:54.560
independent person to hear that outsiders think
see that fabric and that community still alive
0:44:54.560,0:45:00.720
there because the town's changed some in my time
that I've been there and so I wonder are we losing
0:45:00.720,0:45:08.800
something but it sounds like it's still there.
Thanks. Oh, thank you. He made fun of her. Oh,
0:45:08.800,0:45:15.760
he did. Yeah. What did he say? You know, just kind
of guess Oh, he made fun of how you know her sort
0:45:15.760,0:45:22.800
of model. He was very serious last night talking
about Africa and so forth. The AIDS project. All
0:45:22.800,0:45:30.800
right. Cell phones off, candy wrappers unwrapped.
Yeah. Okay. We're going to talk about Independence
0:45:30.800,0:45:38.160
and uh Okay. Um so we've talked about to several
of the people that been back to Independence,
0:45:38.160,0:45:45.840
but as you suggested last night, you're probably
on the the younger end of the spectrum here. You
0:45:45.840,0:45:51.360
make our average age look good. So, this is good
to be talking to somebody. I'm one of the kids.
0:45:51.360,0:45:59.280
You're one of the kids, the the kids. Uh, how
did you come to find out about the festival,
0:45:59.280,0:46:04.480
get invited there? How did Peter find you? How
did you end up there in what would have been three
0:46:04.480,0:46:11.920
years ago now for Arthur Lawrence? I think um from
what I've been able to gather in my two years at
0:46:11.920,0:46:20.240
the festival, it's a in many ways a family affair
and my involvement with the festival was literally
0:46:20.240,0:46:27.200
uh through family. Peter Alenstein's brother David
uh had directed me in a production of The Chosen
0:46:27.200,0:46:34.640
with Theodore Beckel in Miami and in Jersey at the
Papermill Playhouse. Um, and just so happened that
0:46:34.640,0:46:44.880
um, Peter was looking for someone who could play
Con from Arthur Lawrence uh, Home of the Brave
0:46:44.880,0:46:51.440
and young Jewish fellow with lots of problems
and I had played a young hidic fellow with lots
0:46:51.440,0:46:59.200
of problems. So, it was a no-brainer and David
introduced me to Peter. what was a wonderful find
0:46:59.200,0:47:05.280
because I was on the other end of the uh project
in Witchah saying who are we going to get to do
0:47:05.280,0:47:13.840
this says I have somebody perfect in mind and so
it was a happy accident it was uh you're a Jersey
0:47:13.840,0:47:19.280
boy so what was it like coming to Independence
Kansas had you been to Kansas I had been to
0:47:19.280,0:47:26.320
Kansas because uh I had an itinerant upbringing we
actually lived in Omaha Nebraska for what I call
0:47:26.320,0:47:32.720
my Tom Sawyer years when I was about 12, 13, you
know, um got a corn field in the backyard and we'd
0:47:32.720,0:47:40.720
go out into the back backyard with our BB guns
and sort of have adventures. Um and during that
0:47:40.720,0:47:45.120
period when I lived in Nebraska, we had visited
Kansas City and we had been through Kansas and
0:47:45.120,0:47:53.600
visited the Midwest, took the opportunity to poke
around. I hadn't been back um until I guess what
0:47:53.600,0:48:04.080
what was it 2003 or no 2004 um and had been a
New Yorker for almost 10 years at that point. So
0:48:04.080,0:48:11.040
uh it was quite an experience to wake up at 6:00
in the morning New York City and hail a cab and
0:48:11.040,0:48:19.360
end up in a town that maybe doesn't even have any
cabs. I couldn't find any when I got there. But um
0:48:19.360,0:48:25.680
a a very surreal experience 11 hours later to be
in a in a town of 8,000 when you were in town of 8
0:48:25.680,0:48:32.960
million just that morning. 8 million. I lost track
of New York. Yeah. It's probably growing a little
0:48:32.960,0:48:40.000
faster than Independence Kansas is these days.
Maybe. Although the inch festival has uh brought
0:48:40.000,0:48:48.080
some a lot of high profile to to the little town
of independence. But it wasn't maybe quite as much
0:48:48.080,0:48:53.520
a shock to you to come out from New York to Kansas
as it has been for some of our people who haven't
0:48:53.520,0:49:01.200
been to the Midwest. Maybe not. Um, however, uh,
it makes for a very, uh, a very interesting four
0:49:01.200,0:49:08.000
days because you have, you know, your urbanites
from New York or LA converging on this tiny little
0:49:08.000,0:49:14.080
town. Um, and there's nothing that brings you
closer to the other uh strangers in a foreign
0:49:14.080,0:49:20.240
land than than that dynamic, you know, uh kind of
band together and try to figure out where okay,
0:49:20.240,0:49:26.240
what is this and and uh how do we survive
here? And and by the end of the four days, it's
0:49:26.240,0:49:33.600
uh it's just been a wonderful experience. Yeah. To
be welcomed with such open arms when you come from
0:49:33.600,0:49:42.400
two cities that are so doggy dog, you know, your
every day is a fight is a a really nice feeling.
0:49:42.960,0:49:51.200
Uh, I heard them talking in the play last
night about the neighborhood and uh, yeah,
0:49:51.200,0:49:58.720
Independence is a neighborhood, I guess. But,
uh, is there different similarities between a a
0:49:58.720,0:50:07.200
East Coast neighborhood and a Independence Kansas
community? I think so. I think there's a there's a
0:50:07.200,0:50:14.240
Midwestern gentility that I remember from when
I was living in Omaha, Nebraska. And u there
0:50:14.240,0:50:20.560
certainly is a is a gentility in Independence that
and reservedness to sort of play your cards or
0:50:20.560,0:50:27.760
keep your cards close to the vest. Um that there
there is an indefinitely in New York or Jersey.
0:50:27.760,0:50:34.880
You sort of tell people what you think of them um
in no uncertain terms. Um, luckily I'm singing a
0:50:34.880,0:50:40.720
very difficult show vocally. So, uh, it's bad for
my voice to yell at anybody. I I can't be as much
0:50:40.720,0:50:48.480
a New Yorker as I have been in the past. Now, I
remember I'm a canon. I remember the first time
0:50:48.480,0:50:56.480
coming to New York and just being very uh put
off by these people who were in my face and and
0:50:56.480,0:51:00.880
just got to the point pretty quick, you know.
Well, they say I mean they say that New York
0:51:00.880,0:51:08.400
is the smallest is the largest small town in the
world and uh there is a you know you stick around
0:51:08.400,0:51:13.200
New York long enough longer than we spend in
independence longer than four days and you figure
0:51:13.200,0:51:20.480
out that there's a there's love under the uh the
f-words that the litany of four-letter words that
0:51:20.480,0:51:28.720
are coming your way. I finally figured that out.
Yeah. So then you made one uh trip to Kansas and
0:51:28.720,0:51:33.440
we invited you back. What' you come back for
the second time to help with? The first time
0:51:33.440,0:51:43.280
was Arthur Lawrence. The second time was Tina How.
Both very very very New York playwrights but very
0:51:43.280,0:51:49.600
different New York playwrights. Arthur Lawrence
as a Jewish playwright who started writing plays
0:51:49.600,0:51:56.960
about the Jewish experience in the war. Tina how
as an upper east side socialite. Uh both of them
0:51:56.960,0:52:04.560
in their own way I think were were uh it seemed
to me a little shell shocked by by suddenly being
0:52:04.560,0:52:12.240
in the middle of of the Midwest and a tiny little
town. Um and both equally but differently charmed
0:52:12.240,0:52:20.720
by that experience too. And the town took to each
other too in their own ways. Oh yeah. I mean,
0:52:20.720,0:52:29.920
Lawrence sort of irrassable individuality and
and and and Tina How's um uh wit were both I
0:52:29.920,0:52:39.120
think charming at least to me and and I think the
audiences appreciated appreciated that too. Um you
0:52:39.120,0:52:46.720
did a scene uh tell me about it here in a second
uh 14ina how and and just as an aside I really
0:52:46.720,0:52:55.120
appreciated how much uh preparation you had made u
just it was ready to go when you and Robin stepped
0:52:55.120,0:53:02.000
on the stage there wasn't much more to do and yeah
initiation by fire and I remember calling you or
0:53:02.000,0:53:08.960
emailing you and saying u very hesitantly would
you consider wearing a you know bathing trunks
0:53:08.960,0:53:16.000
or something for this and describing the scene
and hey you did the whole gamut so tell tell
0:53:16.000,0:53:20.720
this audience about the scene and we'll probably
use some B-roll of it while you're talking. Well,
0:53:20.720,0:53:29.680
it it was um much like the prior year. It's
there's a a lot of activity in four days and
0:53:29.680,0:53:36.480
um you know, you're living a busy life in
New York or wherever you LA. Um and suddenly,
0:53:36.480,0:53:42.080
uh there's this 4-day conference to go to and
you've got scenes to prepare. And I mean, I spent
0:53:42.080,0:53:47.760
a lot of time on the plane out there making sure I
was, you know, on top of the scripts I was reading
0:53:47.760,0:53:56.880
and that scene in particular. Um, I gave special
u attention to because it was part of the the
0:53:56.880,0:54:02.320
uh the big presentation for Tina How and I didn't
want to let her down. I knew I'd be meeting her
0:54:02.320,0:54:08.160
for the first time. And if I had to do it in a
bathing suit, well, that's the price you pay for
0:54:08.160,0:54:16.000
in immortalizing Tina House. one of Tina House's
greatest plays in the festival. Well, probably you
0:54:16.000,0:54:20.720
almost had to do the whole festival in bathing
suit. I remember you got in on a Tuesday night,
0:54:20.720,0:54:27.360
I think, two in the morning. I met you some
horrible hour and they lost your baggage in W. No
0:54:27.360,0:54:33.840
baggage. Yeah, it could be worse. It was It's only
a four four day conference, so it could have been
0:54:33.840,0:54:41.040
worse. But yeah, that's a little harrowing to not
have your your personal effects. They retrieved it
0:54:41.040,0:54:46.640
though. I hope that they did. They did. It all it
all worked out in the end as uh everything seems
0:54:46.640,0:54:52.480
to at the end. It's it's a frenetic four days
and yet everything culminates in a happy ending.
0:54:54.480,0:55:02.800
uh four days and and I'm always amazed uh at how
busy Peter keeps people but uh people seem to like
0:55:02.800,0:55:07.760
to be busy there who come out for the four days.
Oh yeah, it's exhilarating and everyone's equally
0:55:07.760,0:55:14.880
as busy and it's uh creates a little fraternity,
you know, of the people that you come together
0:55:14.880,0:55:21.520
with in many cases strangers you've never met
before. uh people who are you know that live in
0:55:21.520,0:55:26.800
in New York if if you're from New York or in LA
and um you don't have any opportunity to really
0:55:26.800,0:55:32.000
meet each other and suddenly you're all working
frenetically to put these things together um in
0:55:32.000,0:55:38.320
a very short span of time. Um and I've maintained
relationships with the people I've met. It's it's
0:55:38.320,0:55:45.520
almost like um theater camp for grown-ups except
you're you know this stuff you're doing is far
0:55:45.520,0:55:51.920
more weighty than than uh you know a pageant for
your parents. But the but the the camaraderie is
0:55:51.920,0:55:58.880
uh is is similar and unique. You don't get a
lot of opportunities for conferences so much
0:55:58.880,0:56:05.200
in the theater because what what is really your
conference is your rehearsal period with your cast
0:56:05.200,0:56:10.080
or whatever. But uh but unless you're working on a
production with other people, sometimes it's hard
0:56:10.080,0:56:16.720
to come together. And this is a really great way
of uh having a reunion of the two coasts, so to
0:56:16.720,0:56:22.400
speak. That's a great uh theater camp for adults
is going to make it into the evening. I can tell
0:56:22.400,0:56:30.560
you that. That's great. Uh what what I've learned
from visiting with people this time uh asking them
0:56:30.560,0:56:38.080
about their trips to independence that surprised
me was uh the amount of interconnection and uh
0:56:38.080,0:56:43.760
growing experience that it is for the actors
and directors and producers who come in. Uh I've
0:56:43.760,0:56:49.840
always assumed that it was for us in Kansas and
this was kind of an imposition to ask all of you
0:56:49.840,0:56:55.280
to come there. No, it's not an imposition. And the
other thing that I think is really exciting about
0:56:55.280,0:57:02.560
it is that it's a celebration of the playwright.
And um just personally, I've been lucky enough
0:57:02.560,0:57:12.480
u in my you know young life as an actor to almost
exclusively originate roles or do plays that are
0:57:12.480,0:57:16.800
new enough so that the playwright is still in
the room. I think I've only done two things
0:57:16.800,0:57:23.760
where the playwright was no longer living or
wasn't in the room. Um, and so to come to to
0:57:23.760,0:57:29.520
be so used to working with a playwright and to
see the excitement in a playwright uh when you're
0:57:29.520,0:57:37.040
breathing words life into the new words that
they've written or they're writing words rewriting
0:57:37.040,0:57:43.920
so that things fit you, you know, to to be at that
level of um collaboration with playwrights and
0:57:43.920,0:57:50.160
then to come and see uh and to help uh contribute
to what is essentially a roast for a playwright
0:57:50.160,0:57:58.640
who's had a a you know a a long and varied career
and see the joy on their faces when they go back
0:57:58.640,0:58:05.040
and remember when they were writing for actors who
were breathing the first life into the characters
0:58:05.040,0:58:12.480
they had written. I mean that's a it's a kind
of nice uh it's it's nice to see that cycle
0:58:12.480,0:58:18.400
um since I'm at the beginning of it. You
are at the beginning an exciting beginning.
0:58:18.400,0:58:29.040
um April 2005. You're there to help with Tina How
and uh none of us know that in the background is
0:58:29.040,0:58:35.760
uh a next chapter spinning in your life. I guess
you knew a little about that. Well, when when when
0:58:35.760,0:58:42.080
did we do it? And and the 20th of April around
there. About 20th. Yeah. So about 10 days prior,
0:58:42.080,0:58:50.800
I had received my um offer to star in my first
Broadway show ever, and negotiations had just
0:58:50.800,0:59:02.320
begun. Um I was uh privately nursing plethora
insecurities and and worries. Um was a big deal
0:59:02.320,0:59:08.480
and now it's come to successful fruition. But
then I was a I was a mess. So, it was a nice
0:59:08.480,0:59:16.800
um a nice escape from that private turmoil to to
uh to have something external to myself that I
0:59:16.800,0:59:24.480
had to to partake in. None of us knew there
was any turmoil going on. You were focused.
0:59:24.480,0:59:36.880
Most actors do have turmoil going on 247. So, now
you know. Well, u you're you're one more you're
0:59:36.880,0:59:42.400
a different kind of story for the end festival
that that you're an I knew you win story. So,
0:59:42.400,0:59:47.520
we're all going to be watching back there and
cheering for not only the success of this play,
0:59:47.520,0:59:54.240
but all the future plays. Well, thanks. I wish I
could be there. This is uh this is one I'm sorry
0:59:54.240,1:00:02.400
to miss. Well, we'll get you back there someway,
I'm sure, someday. Um, but for the record on tape,
1:00:02.400,1:00:08.480
I want to say that last night was just an
exciting night in the theater. Thanks. Such
1:00:08.480,1:00:14.800
talent. It's great. Thanks a lot. And you said
some wonderful things. Exactly what I want to
1:00:14.800,1:00:19.920
hear. Good. I'll sprinkle you in. You'll be
on one of those screens several times. You
1:00:19.920,1:00:23.920
know what it's like out there. So, it's a lot
of fun. I can't wait to get the DVD. Yeah. And
1:00:23.920,1:00:30.480
we'll send we'll send you a DVD when it's all
done. When it's all edited. Right. All right.
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